Friday, 1 April 2011

Refutation of some more #No2AV challenges.

From http://witteringwitney.blogspot.com/2011/03/unnecessary-flaggelation.html
What it seems the numpties in Parliament; in the media; those in the "Westminster Bubble"; and the public cannot understand is that it matters not what system of selecting an MP is chosen whilst the leader of a political party is able to control that party's MPs through the whips; it will not improve the standard of candidate until such time as open primaries are introduced; it will not produce any greater control over whichever candidate emerges as the winner; it will not give any greater opportunity of recalling an errant MP as the final decision on that still remains with MPs; it will not provide smaller parties any greater opportunity for their candidates to get elected.

Issue 1: Party leader controls MPs via the whips.

FPTP: If an MP disobeys their party whip, they can expect strong retribution from their party - even de-selection. It doesn't matter how good an MP they are or how popular, there will be no point in them running  against the official candidate, because voters will be scared off them with the threat/worry of 'splitting the party vote and letting in another candidate'.

AV: If an MP disobeys their party whip and are de-selected, under AV they can still run in the next election against their parties 'official' candidate, and if they are popular they will still win. AV removes the risk/threat of vote splitting, as when a candidate does go out their voters votes transfer back to other candidates.

Summary: Under AV whips will lose much of their power/influence - the threat of de-selection is no threat to a good/popular MP. A good/popular MP owes their seat to their voters, not their party!

Issue 2: Recall.

FPTP: Recall can never work properly - because MPs can be elected on a minority of the vote, there will often be a majority of voters who want them recalled and replaced!! So the decision to have a recall has to rest with parliament - and they *always* think they know best (i..e. refusing to have referenda on EU membership, because they think they would lose!).

AV: Because an MP will have received over 50% of the vote in the final round of counting, There is little chance of their being a majoirty against them! So voters can be allowed to instigate recalls without parliament getting in the way.

Summary: Recall only works under AV, it cannot work under FPTP

Issue 3: It will not provide smaller parties any greater opportunity for their candidates to get elected.

FPTP: Single MP constituencies with no top up means a party needs enough support in a single constituency to get elected.
AV: Ditto.

Summary: AV is no worse than FPTP in this respect, neither are proportional systems. But, also has the possibility of being simply converted into AV+ or another form of PR if that is what the people want.

Summary
AV may not be perfect, but no electoral system is! However AV does address many, many of FPTP's flaws. And despite claims to the contrary, the issues raised abover *are* substantially addressed by AV.

2 comments:

  1. Come come pp - you will have to do better than this!

    1. " If an MP disobeys their party whip and are de-selected, under AV they can still run in the next election against their parties 'official' candidate, and if they are popular they will still win."

    And they can do exactly the same under FPTP and have done with the same result!

    Also whips will have exactly the same power whilst parliament is sitting - if you disagree, then explain why. Where patronage exists for the appointment of PPSs, Ministers and Secs of State most MPs will obey their whips in the hope of promotion.

    2. "Because an MP will have received over 50% of the vote in the final round of counting, There is little chance of their being a majoirty against them! So voters can be allowed to instigate recalls without parliament getting in the way."

    Absolute rubbish! Go read George Young in Hansard - any recall is subject to MPs agreement, regardless of what system of electing them is used.

    I notice you do not deal with the matter of parties nominating candidates vs open primaries - and AV deals with this problem, how?

    Methinks it is back to your drawing board pp?

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  2. @WitteringsfromWitney

    Its all there, if you choose not to see it, that is for you to address.

    ReplyDelete